An unprecedented survey mapped the 250 most influential Brazilian researchers in the country, five of them are at PUCRS
Gratitude, passion, happiness, motivation, joy, honor. These were what five women researchers at PUCRS, felt when they learned that they were recognized by the Open Box da Ciência, an initiative of the organization Gênero e Número, intended to give visibility to women in the national scientific community.
We talked to them to find out how they see women participation in science production in Brazil, what were the most striking changes in recent years, what still needs to be improved, and the perspectives for the coming years in terms of holding leadership positions. Check out the full interview with them.
● What was it like to be recognized in such an unprecedented initiative in Brazil?
I was very happy and grateful to be alongside great Brazilian researchers, many of whom I had the opportunity to work with and who played an important role in my life. I think that this recognition values the history of more than 20 years of a research group that brought pioneering scientific contributions to the area, established many scientific partnerships and helped train professionals and researchers in several higher education institutions in the country.
● How do you see the participation of women in national scientific production today?
In Brazil, there has been a significant increase in the number of women as authors of scientific articles. In addition, we have seen an increase in the number of women with doctoral degrees, in the last decades, but these numbers vary according to the academic area. Some areas are already dominated by women, such as biomedical areas. However, it is necessary to develop strategies that increase the presence of women in technological areas.
● What are the most significant changes in recent years and what still needs to be done?
The emergence of projects and networks that have promoted the discussion about women in science. This discussion is important, as it shows society the role of women in scientific development in the country, but also the challenges and obstacles they face to keep up with their production in the academic environment. However, I think there is still a way to go. We need programs and policies that encourage new generations of women to work in science from the very beginning of training. Also, the popularization of science plays an important role in showing the work of many inspiring women who have developed and continue to do quality science in our country.
● Although there are more women researchers in Brazil, they do not hold leadership positions as men researchers do. What are the prospects for the coming years in this regard?
Perspectives are good for women in leadership positions. As women’s participation in science and academia increases, I think these positions will be taken by women more and more. Certainly, over time, the number of researchers in these positions will be balanced. This will reinforce the idea that different modes of perception and leadership traits are positive for organizations.
● What was it like to be recognized in such an unprecedented initiative in Brazil?
Actually, when I saw that I had been recognized in the Open Box da Ciência, I was surprised and went to see what this platform was all about. After learning about the platform and methodology for mapping out the researchers based on our productions, it was very gratifying to have been recognized in such an unprecedented initiative. This motivates us to continue building scientific knowledge that is useful to society.
● How do you see the participation of women in national scientific production today?
The participation of women in different areas of society has been increasing, but they still face obstacles, including their in science. One of the obstacles is that we have to juggle work, family, and sometimes a second job. The workload of women with housework and childcare increased dramatically in the pandemic. And, as a result, there is not much time for scientific production.
● What are the most significant changes in recent years and what still needs to be done?
In recent years, women have been getting into different professional areas more and more, as most people getting into higher education are women, However, some areas are still dominated by men, such as Engineering, Aeronautics, Physics, among others Exact Sciences areas. Although we currently see women working in all professional fields, our salary is still lower and there are fewer opportunities for career advancement and managerial positions. We are awarded fewer research grants when compared to male researchers. Universities and other institutions need to implement affirmative political actions for gender and race equality. If we consider African Brazilian women, they will still face more obstacles in the face of gender and race inequalities in our society.
One of the positive changes observed was the possibility to include maternity leave in our curriculum so that our lower academic production in that period is justified.
● Although there are more women researchers in Brazil, they do not hold leadership positions as men researchers do. What are the prospects for the coming years in this regard?
Changes take time to occur and for women to hold leadership positions as men do, we need to transform the unequal social structures based on the gender divide and in the inequitable division of household chores and childcare, with the elderly, among others. This relates to the traditional gender roles in our society that associate care with the mother figure. This feminization of care also influences the choice of professional careers. Girls are not encouraged to pursue careers in Exact Sciences. We see some advances in some sectors, but they are isolated initiatives. For example, this year, I read an article that women researchers accounted for 50% of the researcher positions at the São Paulo State Department of Agriculture and Supply and at the São Paulo Agribusiness Technology Agency (APTA). These agencies coordinate the six research institutes São Paulo, and there were women in the leadership of three of them.
A study by Barros and Mourão (2020) analyzed the production of CNPq researchers from 2013 to 2016. It has been found that although there are no significant differences in relation to the scientific production of men and women, men are awarded 63% of CNPq research grants and. When we look at the career’s highest level (PQ1A), only 23% of them are women.
I do not envision changes in this scenario in the coming years, especially because Brazil’s position in the gender development index has plummeted to 79 in a list that includes 166 countries, according to the UN. This index reflects the same HDI indicators that assess the health, income and education of men and women. Although women’s level of education is higher than that of men, their income is 41.5% lower. These gender inequalities continue reflect the lower participation of women in leadership positions in research, politics and other arenas.
● What was it like to be recognized in such an unprecedented initiative in Brazil?
It is always good to be recognized for the work we do, especially when it is something we like to do. In any case, I love research– when we dive into this world, even without any kind of external recognition, the personal reward is worth it.
● How do you see the participation of women in national scientific production today?
The number of women in undergraduate and graduate programs has increased a lot in recent years. Consequently, the number of scientific articles written by women (as main authors) has been growing. However, we still face many challenges: there are studies that suggest that articles with men as the main authors are more easily accepted by scientific journals.
● What are the most significant changes in recent years and what still needs to be done?
If we look at the year 1920 and now at the year 2020, we can see that women have gained a lot of space in the academic world. But that was not, and it is still not simple. The reasons for the differences are unclear – but they do exist. As mentioned above, there is still less scientific work with women, lower funding, and fewer women in leadership positions in scientific societies. Why? That is a complex question to answer, but we need to keep trying to change. Changing the current scenario requires persistence: the same persistence that has caused the numbers of women in undergraduate and graduate programs grow exponentially. CNPq’s Mulher é Ciência program showed that in 2013, only 36% of research grants were awarded to women. An article published by O Globo in 2018 revealed that these numbers have not changed much in recent years. This suggests that our society still needs to change for women to hold higher positions in research. Only then, the scenario can be different for the new generations of competent researchers that we are training.
● Although there are more women researchers in Brazil, they do not hold leadership positions as men researchers do. What are the prospects for the coming years in this regard?
This is very clear: I do not have the exact numbers, though. But the question remains: how many women were presidents of CNPq or CAPES? How many women have held significant positions in the Brazilian Academy of Sciences? At the main scientific congresses, how many women sit at the opening table? A quick Google search is enough to answer these questions: the number of women in neglected. However, the same search does not bring answers that justify these inequalities. On the same line, we cannot predict when and how it is possible to increase the participation of women in scientific leadership positions. Important journals such as Science eNature have dedicated part of their editorials to discussions on such inequalities in the academia. No, this is not an exclusively Brazilian problem, but yes, we are still far behind in discussing these issues. Here it is worth quoting a phrase by Marie Curie, a woman who received the Nobel Prize in the early 20th century twice: “The path to progress is neither fast nor easy” – slow and difficult will also be the process of cultural change needed to reduce gender inequalities in research.
● What was it like to be recognized in such an unprecedented initiative in Brazil?
I received the news with great joy and felt honored to be part of a group of Brazilian researchers selected through objective criteria of scientific productivity. I am also very grateful to the organization Gênero e Número which, supported by the Serrapilheira Institute, took the initiative to honor women researchers from Brazil. This initiative is a lot more than a mere recognition, because it has the potential to signal to men and women that the path of science can be successfully followed, regardless of gender.
● How do you see the participation of women in national scientific production today?
A study published by Elsevier,(1) comparing the quality and impact of research developed in various countries, showed that, in Brazil, an important progress in the participation of women in science has been observed. From 1996 to 2000, women represented 38% of Brazilian researchers and, from 2011 to 2015, this number jumped to 49% (an increase of 29% in two decades). This indicates that the proportion of men to women researchers is quantitatively well balanced in the country. On the other hand, there are disparities between the sexes in bibliographic metrics. Men publish more as first author (usually the researcher who lead the study) and as last author (usually the most senior researcher in the group) and their publications are more cited than those authored by women.
● What are the most significant changes in recent years and what still needs to be done?
The most significant changes are precisely those that have led Brazilian women to be present in the scientific scenario nationally and internationally. According to data from the Institute for Applied Economic Research,(2) 54% of PhDs in Brazil are women, similar to what occurs in developed countries (53% in the United States, in 2017). The number of women in science varies according to the academic area, with women in the majority (over 60%) in Life and Health Sciences. The growth that has been observed in recent years is the result of scientifically relevant and well-conducted research, published in peer-reviewed qualified national and international journals. But there is still a long way to go, not just for women, but for Brazilian researchers in general. The impact of Brazilian scientific production all over the world still needs to improve. The support of national research development agencies, such as the National Council for Scientific and Technological Development (CNPq) and the State Foundations for Research Support, is essential for Brazilian research to move forward in terms of volume and quality. Research is essential for the country’s progress. In critical moments like the one we are going through, it is clear how much the country needs and will need science, technology and innovation to recover from the COVID-19 pandemic.
● Although there are more women researchers in Brazil, they do not hold leadership positions as men researchers do. What are the prospects for the coming years in this regard?
Women are greatly under-represented in leadership and senior positions, both in the public and private sectors, and not just in Brazil: this is something that happens all over the world. Although the number of women in science has increased, in Biomedicine, for example, women researchers generally receive lower salaries and are less frequently promoted to leadership positions or awarded financial support for research as men are. In the field of Epidemiology, for example, although the number of women is equal or even greater than that of men, there is evidence of gender disparities in scientific production, with a smaller number of women publishing scientific articles as first or last authors. In addition, the editorial boards of main dedicated journals still favor women underrepresentation. We need to bring this gender divide in science to an end, make women’s participation less discriminatory
and more merit-based. There is no difference in the quality of research carried out by male or female researchers. On the contrary, the differences in perspectives, which characterize the views of men and women in relation to the same problem, enrich science.
As for the perspectives for the coming years, I think there are new things coming up, which, over time, may lead to a reparation. In Epidemiology, for example, there is a higher proportion of women in early career positions. It is possible that this greater representation will result in a future increase in the number of women in leadership positions in the area. But this is something that only time will tell. For now, initiatives such as the Open Box da Ciência platform can bring greater visibility and cause people to reflect upon this important issue of gender disparities in science.
● What was it like to be recognized in such an unprecedented initiative in Brazil?
For me it was a big surprise. The recognition filled me with joy and the desire to continue my research to open spaces for women and girls who, like me, are fighting for female emancipation. In Brazil, this is something major in the struggle for the visibility of the work done in science by countless women who, in short, have been kept behind the scenes due to sexism and misogyny. In my opinion, giving visibility to women who are facing prejudice and discrimination and, in this way, joining forces to strengthen scientific production is very fruitful in the development of new, more active, more solidary, responsible and conscious women researchers.
● How do you see the participation of women in national scientific production today?
I believe we are living in a very delicate moment, as our fight for reaching arenas of power is in the agenda. Nevertheless, the strong polarization we are going through evinces some sexist and misogynist attitudes. This urges the groups that fight for women’s rights to be cleverer and, above all, firm. The truth of the matter is that we cannot go back in time in terms of exercising full citizenship, that is, any policy that is in disagreement with the constitutionally guaranteed rights and guarantees for women are not to be allowed. This applies especially for women who, in short, have served as a mainstay for society. According to IBGE, Brazil is a country where mothers and grandmothers are largely responsible for bringing up families.
I believe that despite some obvious changes in the number of women in the academia and science, there are many difficulties in accepting women as a subject of rights in Brazil. Consequently, the conditions for women’s participation are still very precarious, especially when it comes to women who are not awarded financial aid and incentives to continue with their training.
We must always remember that it is still tremendously difficult for African Brazilian students who are, on top of that, stigmatized due to their race. The precarious conditions of Brazilian education are an issue right now, more specifically when it
comes to affects sexual education and the notions of self-care in schools and families. This compromises the health of women and girls and keep them from getting into the labor market, in the academia and science.
● What are the most significant changes in recent years and what still needs to be done?
PROUNI was the program that tackled the issue of higher education, and focused on girls and women who would like to attend university but lacked the financial means to do so. In other words, it provided diversity within the university campuses and, in this way, provided opportunities for exchanges and recognition for a population that, as a rule, did not have the chance to go to college and that knew how to demonstrate an incredible strength.
In this sense, it is worth highlighting the women and girls who, as a result of PROUNI, were introduced to a new universe and who, in this way, influenced their families and generated much wealth for Brazil.
● Although there are more women researchers in Brazil, they do not hold leadership positions as men researchers do. What are the prospects for the coming years in this regard?
It is important to highlight that this is a reality that is global. So, to a greater or lesser degree, there is a gap between the effective performance of men and women in science. However, in countries where the disparity is smaller, there is necessarily a proportional increase in the quality of life and in the HDI, e.g., in countries like Finland, Australia and Denmark. The increased role of women, without a shadow of a doubt, has spearheaded a number of activities to improve communities, in general. Overall, even if, from today, the resources for women and men were equal, inside and outside the families, investments in academic education, it would still take an average of 50 years for these disparities to come to an end from the perspective of the production of scientific knowledge.
Therefore, I understand that there is an urgent need to prioritize public policies that address the needs of those women who live and live in extremely difficult situations in Brazil. These same policies must actually promote female participation, make them responsible and solidary leaders. In addition, the visibility of the various forms of violence that Brazilian women are exposed to on a daily basis is, without a shadow of a doubt, can lead us to support and mutually recognize one another. In other words, it can make us act in equal terms as a tool for support for self-esteem and empowerment.
Finally, rights education campaigns, especially with regard to human rights, clearly have a very important role in building a more welcoming, more inclusive and less violent society.
